Elliot Williams on Five Bullets and the NYC Subway Vigilante Trial That Divided a Nation
In this episode of That Said, Michael Zeldin sits down with Elliot Williams to explore Williams’ new book Five Bullets, a powerful reexamination of the Bernhard Goetz subway shooting and the trial that followed. The conversation takes listeners back to a volatile moment in 1980s New York, when rising crime rates and deep racial tensions set the stage for a case that would grip the nation.
Williams unpacks the complex legal and cultural questions at the heart of the incident, where Goetz, a white man, shot four Black teenagers on a subway car, claiming self-defense. As the trial unfolded, it sparked fierce public debate over vigilantism, justice, and systemic bias. Zeldin and Williams examine how media coverage amplified these divisions, turning the case into one of the first true-crime sensations of the cable news era.
Drawing on archival research and firsthand insight, Williams connects the events of that time to today’s ongoing conversations about public safety, race, and the power of narrative. This episode offers a thoughtful look at how one moment in New York history continues to shape the national dialogue.
